Reid discusses Iceberg Slim and whether a white person can portray the black experience with his guest co-host, Foam Chomsky, a puppet.
Script:
Welcome to The Irrationally Exuberant. On today’s episode we’ll be looking at the life of Iceberg Slim – and for you white people in the audience, no, that’s not some kind of lettuce based diet.
FC: Jesus. What are you doing?
Ladies and gentlemen, that disapproving voice you’re hearing is my guest co-host for the first portion of this episode – Foam Chomsky, the skeptical puppet.
FC: Full disclosure. I’m not really a puppet. There’s no puppet here. I’m just Reid doing a dumb voice to represent his own doubts and insecurities. It’s not a very original gimmick.
Oh, wow, Foam Chomsky, I didn’t think we were going to reveal that to the listeners.
FC: You wrote it into the script, champ.
Right. Now, you were asking what I’m doing. I’m introducing the topic of the show. Iceberg Slim, real name Robert Beck, a notorious pimp from the 1930s and through the 50s who eventually became a prolific author and activist.
FC: Yeah. What are you doing?
A comedy podcast about Iceberg Slim.
FC: You, a middle class white 35 year old male living in Fargo, North Dakota are going to do a COMEDY podcast about an African American PIMP. You, Reid Messerschmidt, are going to make COMEDY about sexual violence against women, human trafficking, and racial stereotypes – in 2018 – without any black folks or women contributing? Just you and me, a dumb gimmick that is also just you.
That was my intention, I guess. I’m the only one that ever contributes to the show. It’s my show. And I just read Slim’s book, Pimp, and thought it was really interesting and bizarre and funny in its own horrifying way, so I wanted to talk about it. Sure I’m all of those things you said, but I recently read A Fire Next Time by James Baldwin and The Autobiography of Malcolm X and The Murder of Joe Louis and Whoreson by Donald Goines and Sing Unburied Sing by Jesmyn Ward and I watched What Happened Miss Simone about Nina Simone and Dutchman by Amiri Baraka. I tried to cram in a lot of black culture and I think I’m pretty sensitive to the plight of women in an ostensibly patriarchal society – I consider myself a Feminist. So I think I’m . . . I think I’m good.
FC: You think you’re good, huh? Was that list meant to impress everyone?
Kind of, I suppose. But I did . . .
FC: You think that reading a bunch of books is somehow going to give you an inside track on the black experience?
I’ve watched The Wire twice.
FC: EVERYONE HAS WATCHED THE WIRE TWICE! Let me ask you this: How many black friends do you have? REAL friends.
There’s Torie at work, I like her a lot, and Robert that I used to work with, and I’m always happy to run into Peterson. I dated a black girl once. There are several I really enjoy on Facebook.
FC: REAL FRIENDS, REID!
None. But I live in Fargo! The options are limited! And I don’t make new friends easily.
FC: Right. But no black friends. So what gives you the right to make comedy about any facet of the black experience?
Well, I like to think that it’s the human experience.
FC: But sometimes you are very, very dumb. Remember when you thought that Michael J. Fox sang “For the Longest Time”?
I was just a kid! But I suppose that the fact that I had any opinion or thought about “Longest Time” proves how white I am.
FC: Wrong! Your opinions of or response to Billy Joel have nothing to do with race. Everyone knows about Billy Joel. You think black people don’t know about Billy Joel? I guess an argument could be made that Billy Joel is white culture, but you don’t think that black people know about white culture? How could they possibly avoid it? They’re drowning in it!
Well . . . did you notice that I watched Dutchman? Not even for the first time! That’s, like, advanced studies. And I really think I get it! It’s about how white culture – liberal, liberated white culture – sexualizes and gaslights black folks, drawing them in and pushing them away, criticizing them for being both not white enough and not black enough. And then punishing them when they act out in a way the way that we’d been goading them into the whole time. I see myself in it, see my own flaws. I’m culpable. It’s chilling stuff, Foam Chomsky.
FC: But you’re still making this COMEDY podcast about Iceberg Slim, and you’re going to dwell on the parts that adhere to atrocious racial stereotypes because that is what he’s primarily known for. Oh, sure, maybe you’ll have a few seconds where the music maybe gets a little slower and you’ll talk about how he changed his ways and became something of a force for civil rights and a good guy. Why not do the show about Amiri Baraka, if you’re so taken with him, or, better yet, James Baldwin?
Well, I don’t find them very funny. It’s hard to make comedy out of people you hold up on a pedestal.
FC: Well, why don’t you do one on Roy Orbison? He’s hilarious and right in your wheelhouse.
I’m working on an episode about Roy Orbison. But I don’t want this just to be a parade of white guys. It’s a double edged sword, if I may use a cliché. May I use a cliché, Foam?
FC: I’ll allow it.
Either this show is 100% white people, which seems wrong, or I, as a white man, am representing a group that I don’t have the right to speak for, which is wrong.
FC: Are you aware that there’s no law on the books stating that every white guy that finds himself amusing has to have a podcast or “be heard” by the broader public?
I am. But . . . I’m really funny. And I like doing this. And people seem to like hearing it. What if, say, Philip Roth had never put pen to paper just because he was a white male?
FC: Oh, lord. First, Philip Roth was a Jew. Second, Philip Roth was a genius. You’re no genius. Third, the answer to your question is nothing. What if Philip Roth had never put pen to paper? Nothing, probably. The world would go on almost exactly like it is now.
That’s fucking depressing.
FC: That’s nothing. If we never heard from one of you ever again, I’m pretty sure we’ve got enough to last a lifetime. Between Roth and Updike and a thousand Jonathan’s and literally almost every popular artist of all time, I’m pretty sure we’ve got our understanding of the white, male, middle class experience wrapped up.
But that’s why I want to do Iceberg Slim! It’s outside of that experience!
FC: Fair enough, but reading a couple black authors is not the same as understanding something, and I think we’re seeing what reacting to a thing without a full understanding of it will get you in this day and age. And we’ve barely touched on the glorification of sexual violence and human trafficking implicit in this story. That’s a whole other bag of potatoes.
But I read all the books and watched the things!
FC: And you enjoyed them, right?
Hmmmm. (whining) Yes. Very much so. The black community has truly given the world most of its greatest art. There seems to be an almost biblical sense of peril and magic running through Ellison, Baldwin, Baraka, and Simone. (sigh) You’re very wise, Foam Chomsky. Alright, I guess I’m going to do an episode about Roy Orbison – right after a commercial break!
Stay with me!